Curse

Principa Discordia · Jun 15, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaper-X

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/ht...506140037.html

Some people are just too unfit or unintelligent to be parents and should be sterilised. What's worse is when people actually go and blame the video games instead of the neglectful parents.

dansamy · Jun 16, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Some people are just too unfit or unintelligent to be parents and should be sterilised. What's worse is when people actually go and blame the video games instead of the neglectful parents.

My husband is of the mind that we should have competency tests required before being allowed to breed. That procreation should be a licensed thing and all others would be sterilized by the government. I told him he was crazy, but maybe I'm wrong.

DarrenJasper · Jun 16, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

My husband is of the mind that we should have competency tests required before being allowed to breed. That procreation should be a licensed thing and all others would be sterilized by the government. I told him he was crazy, but maybe I'm wrong.

Read up on the American eugenics movement. As much flak as I may get for saying this, it was a good idea at the core.

DarrenJasper · Jun 16, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

If I founded a highly selective breeding cult based on Nietzschean principles with the goal of purging the unfit from our midst (and also creating the Overman but that's for later!) would you guys all join?

Heron Fensbanel · Jun 16, 2005, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Being one of the unfit myself, I probably wouldn't.

Principa Discordia · Jun 16, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

If I founded a highly selective breeding cult based on Nietzschean principles with the goal of purging the unfit from our midst (and also creating the Overman but that's for later!) would you guys all join?

As someone on antipsychotics, antidepressants, with insomnia and regular counselling, I don't quite think I qualify, but thanks for asking.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 16, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

If I founded a highly selective breeding cult based on Nietzschean principles with the goal of purging the unfit from our midst (and also creating the Overman but that's for later!) would you guys all join?

Camus>Nietzche.

Heron Fensbanel · Jun 16, 2005, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

As someone on antipsychotics, antidepressants, with insomnia and regular counselling, I don't quite think I qualify, but thanks for asking.

Genetic perfection is so bland anyway.

Principa Discordia · Jun 16, 2005, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heron Fensbanel

Genetic perfection is so bland anyway.

Wasn't there a song that went something along the lines of; "If everyone was the same, nobody would look at eachother"? I vaguely remember it. Truer words were never spoken, though.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 16, 2005, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

...If everyone was the same, nobody would look at eachother...

That, and life would cease to be fun

chalt2 · Jun 16, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

If I founded a highly selective breeding cult based on Nietzschean principles with the goal of purging the unfit from our midst (and also creating the Overman but that's for later!) would you guys all join?

This has already been tried, maybe 60 or 70 years ago by a small political group out of Germany.......

Scaper-X · Jun 16, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

would you guys all join?

As stated, there was a self-important little man by the name of Hitler who proposed what you suggest. In short, negative.

"Filtering out the unfit", indeed.
-- Scaper-X

DarrenJasper · Jun 16, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalt2

This has already been tried, maybe 60 or 70 years ago by a small political group out of Germany.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaper-X

As stated, there was a self-important little man by the name of Hitler who proposed what you suggest. In short, negative.

Dead wrong, both of you.

The Nazi party improperly labelled itself a eugenics movement and took Nietzsche's ideas completely out of context in order to defend their actions. Their claims of filtering out the unfit were falsehoods spun to justify genocide. As we all know, there is far more genetic variation within ethnic groups than between them - no single race is inherently superior, genetic superiority is on an individual basis. Their arguments were only elaborate excuses: hatred was what fueled Nazi Germany, not any real desire to better the species.

Giving Nietzsche a bad rap for what Hitler did with his words is kind of like blaming Ghandi for the nuclear proliferation happening between Indian and Pakistan. And it really bugs me when people do it.

chalt2 · Jun 16, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Dead wrong, both of you.

The Nazi party improperly labelled itself a eugenics movement and took Nietzsche's ideas completely out of context in order to defend their actions. Their claims of filtering out the unfit were falsehoods spun to justify genocide. As we all know, there is far more genetic variation within ethnic groups than between them - no single race is inherently superior, genetic superiority is on an individual basis. Their arguments were only elaborate excuses: hatred was what fueled Nazi Germany, not any real desire to better the species.

Giving Nietzsche a bad rap for what Hitler did with his words is kind of like blaming Ghandi for the nuclear proliferation happening between Indian and Pakistan. And it really bugs me when people do it.

Put whatever ribbon you want on it, eugenics, cloning and other omnipotent endevors will eventually lead us to the same place that spliting the atom has..
As humans we have a bad history of obtaining great power and then abusing it for what the weilders DEEM as the greater good, regardless of the consequences.

DarrenJasper · Jun 16, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalt2

Put whatever ribbon you want on it, eugenics, cloning and other omnipotent endevors will eventually lead us to the same place that spliting the atom has..
As humans we have a bad history of obtaining great power and then abusing it for what the weilders DEEM as the greater good, regardless of the consequences.

Wait, so you're against scientific progress altogether because it carries the potential for destruction as well as creation?

Dreamsmith · Jun 16, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

If I founded a highly selective breeding cult based on Nietzschean principles with the goal of purging the unfit from our midst (and also creating the Overman but that's for later!) would you guys all join?

One assumes by "Nietzschean" you're refering to the TV series Andromeda, since selective breeding has nothing to do with the philosopher Nietzsche's idea of the overman. Nietzsche considered people who took that interpretation of his works to be idiots. The overman does not transcend man biologically. Man becomes overman by a process of self-overcoming, and in all respects of which Nietzsche writes, it's a process in which man changes how he thinks and feels and wills, and has nothing whatsoever to do with his genetic makeup. Via eugenics, you could make a different kind of man, but such a man would be no closer to Nietzsche's overman than the average man today. Nietzsche is unconcerned with genetics and breeding, he's concerned with mental development. To him, the gulf between Plato and the average man is greater than the gulf between the average man and a chimpanzee. The overman has nothing to do with biological evolution, the overman is not a new biological species. The overman does not strive to improve the human, but to overcome him. Eugenics is the antithesis of real Nietzschean thought.

For humanity to truly transcend in a Nietzschean manner, it would require a memetic, not a genetic change.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 16, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

I think he is just against your cult

Not many intelligent people are against the simple advancement of science (perhaps they are against the ways it is used though

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

Nietzsche considered people who took that interpretation of his works to be idiots

ha

dansamy · Jun 16, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Well, being near-sighted and having a family history of heart disease and diabetes, I am genetically unfit for breeding. Physically, I am also unfit. With each of my 3 pregnancies, I developed life-threatening HELLP Syndrome.

BrandonIT · Jun 16, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Basically, I don't think the human race is capable of evolving past what it is.

5,000 years...tops....that's the longest we've been here....Otherwise, we'd have destroyed ourselves or everything else by now...

I too am one of the ones who you could get on an impulse to probably agree that all procreation needs to be licensed, and should be given competency exams. 'Purge the ignorance from among us.'

Seriously though, everyone wants to see someone with control, as long as they are the ones with the control. Me, the list of people I trust to rule the world is a VERY short list, while the list of people who I'd leave behind when the sun went nova is growing...every....single....day....

"....everybody wants to rule the world..."
- Tears for Fears

chalt2 · Jun 16, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Wait, so you're against scientific progress altogether because it carries the potential for destruction as well as creation?

If you knew and understood more of what you speak of you might "get" that what I said had NOTHING to do with scientific progress but with the human tendency to abuse, misuse and take for granted "power" See if you develop a means for there to be "selection" then that means there has to be somebody or something that does the selecting and THAT creates power. So when you talk about "creating" a superior "race" or "class" of people who decides who gets to move on and who gets left behind, who makes the determination of who is better or who is not "suitable". Will the criteria be success or wealth, or looks, maybe intelligence, perhaps wisdom either way eventually it will break down into who has enough money or influence or both.